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okay here's our interview with the

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generals

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here's my little thoughts on the

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bungling of the of the the pull out it

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seems to me primarily a failure of

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intelligence because it seems that most

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that most people even in the upper

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echelons of the government

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did not anticipate

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that the taliban would take over so

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quickly and be in kabul in what less

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than a week so that would seem to me to

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be failure of intelligence the other

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comment i have is that

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i i really wanted to look in to see what

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this um

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doha deal was that the trump

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administration entered into with the

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taliban in early 2020

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and apparently a key provision of that

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was that it only takes effect if we only

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remove our troops if there is a

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subsequent

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deal between the taliban and the afghan

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government

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and you know essentially that's the

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power sharing deal that you that you

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hear about well that deal never happened

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and the lack of such a deal

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certainly seems to have played into what

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we're seeing today

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but the biden administration apparently

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decided we're going to go ahead with the

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troop pull out even though that element

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of the deal

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never came to

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fruition

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that seems to have perhaps have been a

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significant

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error here or or cause of what we're

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seeing

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yeah well i can start um i i

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absolutely agree with you jim i think

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but i think it's easy to blame the

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intelligence

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community

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and we do we do it quite often you know

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intelligence failure um

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it's more than that as you you've

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alluded to um the strategy was flawed

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from the beginning we can talk about

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that if you want to in a bit but

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the handoff between the trump

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administration and the biden

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administration um and you mentioned the

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doha agreement it's a key aspect of that

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but it seems that

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and we don't know how trump would have

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done the withdrawal plan honestly we can

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speculate on that um and i don't think

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most americans would argue that getting

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out of afghanistan is the wrong idea i

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think there's widespread support for

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sort of uh at least minimizing our

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footprint and closing this chapter a

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little bit in american history since

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it's been 20 years

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but

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need to look at is

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you know and at some point this will

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come out you know when when we get to

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bob order book you know we'll actually

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know what happened in the national

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security council

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on the discussions between

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the national security advisor the the

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chairman of the joint chiefs um you know

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the ambassador

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secretary

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you know how could you

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take all of the

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conditions that you were handed because

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those were not perfect

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and how could you then take that and

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then

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create this lack of what looks like a

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lack of a plan

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which which essentially turned to okay

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here's our date we're gonna announce

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that date to the world

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we're gonna surrender all the initiative

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to the enemy because not only are we

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gonna announce a date but we are going

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to

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withdraw our command and control

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headquarters

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and then we're going to withdraw our

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military forces and then we're going to

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shut down

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our primary secure air base for

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logistics and evacuation and everything

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and then we're going to respond to

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surprise events and maybe think about

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civilians and evacuations after the fact

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so

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that's what it looks like

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which

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you know we're all scratching our heads

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i think a lot of commentators a lot of

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very smart people especially saying

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how could that happen how could you move

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from

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what surely was a planning process for

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your withdrawal date for your uh you

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know evacuation of

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of non-combatants citizens um afghan

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allies interpreters etc

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you must have had a plan and even if you

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mis understood or or misinterpreted or

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the intelligence community somehow

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failed to

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warn about the collapse

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you could

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you had to have a plan that that took

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into account some level of degradation

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and collapse

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otherwise i i would argue you didn't

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really have a plan so

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i'm really curious what happened in the

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interim between here's our date here's

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what we're announcing to the world and

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oh my gosh everything's collapsing and

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we've got to bring back large military

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assets in here and react in a chaotic

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environment when we have

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absolutely given the initiative to the

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taliban and we've given that initiative

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away from ourselves so so i'm i'm

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baffled by that whole thing jim i don't

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know if that's

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down the road where you want to go with

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this and general bishop probably has

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some thoughts as well

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yeah i agree with what chris was saying

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i'd like to tweak though

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the concept of uh getting out

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uh

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ending these endless wars as our former

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president like to say

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i don't think that most americans

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realize we have 6 000 people deployed

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across africa

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i don't think most americans realize

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every time an aircraft carrier leaves

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port that has 6 000 americans

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deployed on it

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so to have

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2500

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americans stationed at what really was

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a forward intelligent outpost

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you know to characterize that as

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bringing those americans home as ending

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the endless wars i'm with tony what tony

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blair said

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on that this past weekend

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this is far different

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than 2001 or even 2011

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as to the commitment we had

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so

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um

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the planning part chris has spot on

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i've shot you know before i spent an

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hour before the show looking at

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the joint pub

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3-68 which is

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non-combatant evacuation operations

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and it seems to me like they didn't take

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it off the shelf

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and

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people tend to blame

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the military

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for a lack of a plan

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but

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those of us who have been around neos

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and as a lifelong logistician i've been

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around and planned a lot

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uh we know that and i'm just gonna quote

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here real quickly

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during

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non-uh combatant

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evacuation operations the chief of

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mission

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neither

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the geographic combatant commander nor

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the

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senior united government authority

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and then to show again how the

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department of defense is subservient to

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the secretary of state the next page

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goes on

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to say sec deaf advises

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sac state in the heads of other

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government departments and agencies as

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appropriate

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so

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as

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robert litter book will learn really

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what went beyond or behind the scenes on

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all that

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but one has to ask even if

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the secretary of state

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and potentially the president i guess

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were driving

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this sequencing of

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the withdrawal from afghanistan i need

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to take

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your troops

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leave the weapons and then evacuate the

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people

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it just defies all logic

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so

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why in the world would we do that and

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why would the secretary of defense the

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defense department

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not object

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to that in a big way because

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a dandelion could have seen this happen

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i mean we we were talking about this

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back in in

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in july first part of july when we were

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evacuated

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well yeah and that's what i'm trying to

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understand is

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how they came to this decision and my

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only thought is that they must have

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assumed that this afghan military of

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some 300 000

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with

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billions of dollars of american

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equipment

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was going to hold up longer than it did

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so that anyone who did want to leave

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would have plenty of time

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to leave so even though it certainly

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seems odd especially in hindsight that

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the us military pulled out without

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making sure that anyone who wanted to

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leave could leave

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seemed to me that they were assuming

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that we were going to have

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let's just say a bare minimum bare bare

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minimum of a month

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before

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the taliban was in kabul but certainly

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the they assumed they projected many

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months and so that i assume their

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thought was that there would be plenty

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of time for anyone who chose to get out

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to get out of course the hope was people

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would perhaps never need to leave

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because the afghan government would

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would hold up

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crumbled

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in a matter of days

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so

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that's why i go back to

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did we not see this that this thing was

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going to crumble in a matter of days it

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it seems that we didn't see that

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well

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you have have chris on to uh

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because he spent more time there than i

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have i i've been to afghanistan maybe

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five or six times

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but they were really only for overnights

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but in just those overnights and talking

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with the people mainly at bagram some in

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kandahar when you ask them how it was

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going you could never get clarity on

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that answer

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and that's what i referred to jim in my

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email to you about the tank

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i'm the air force guy the air force

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representative for most of the year as a

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two star

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among three star desops because my three

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star boss liked to travel a lot

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and ninety percent of our meetings in

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the tank all had to do and the tank for

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your audience you're not familiar with

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it's a little

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00:10:34,550 --> 00:10:32,720
a conference room in the joint chiefs of

293
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,560
staff area

294
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:36,720
and that's where the des ops the deputy

295
00:10:41,509 --> 00:10:39,360
of operations for all the services

296
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:41,519
meet on monday and wednesday to tee up

297
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:45,040
issues for the chiefs on friday

298
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:46,480
and 90

299
00:10:49,910 --> 00:10:47,680
of all the

300
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:49,920
tank meetings i was in was having to do

301
00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:52,320
with afghanistan and what's the next

302
00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:54,560
unit to rotate in

303
00:10:57,670 --> 00:10:56,800
and after about six months i finally

304
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:57,680
said

305
00:11:02,150 --> 00:10:59,760
you know guys i mean there's a lot more

306
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:02,160
going on in the world than just what the

307
00:11:07,190 --> 00:11:04,000
next army units are going to be the ones

308
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:07,200
to rotate and where are metrics i mean

309
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:09,120
what's the definition here how many

310
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:11,680
people are we trying to train

311
00:11:16,630 --> 00:11:14,800
how qualified do they have to be

312
00:11:19,269 --> 00:11:16,640
and those are just

313
00:11:21,829 --> 00:11:19,279
you know kind of black and white metrics

314
00:11:22,710 --> 00:11:21,839
something that would be harder to get to

315
00:11:29,269 --> 00:11:22,720
is

316
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,279
to stay behind you may have seen

317
00:11:33,190 --> 00:11:31,200
the interview of general miller back in

318
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:33,200
may the commander over there when a

319
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,200
reporter is pressing him as

320
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:37,120
well as the army is the afghan army

321
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:38,240
going to hold

322
00:11:41,829 --> 00:11:40,480
and he says they have to hold well are

323
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:41,839
they going to hold well they have to

324
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,880
hold to me that was an element of doubt

325
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:46,320
and when you look at

326
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,000
a map that many of us have seen

327
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:53,279
the taliban had taken over half of

328
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:56,480
afghanistan by the first of july

329
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,440
so

330
00:12:02,710 --> 00:12:00,240
to say that we couldn't see this coming

331
00:12:05,430 --> 00:12:02,720
in the middle of august i think

332
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:05,440
um we're putting our heads in

333
00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:06,959
sorry chris i think we stepped on one

334
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:09,360
another no no sir uh absolutely

335
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,760
appropriate um the one thing that as you

336
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:13,519
were talking jim i'm thinking to myself

337
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:14,720
okay

338
00:12:19,430 --> 00:12:17,279
even if we missed it as

339
00:12:20,470 --> 00:12:19,440
an intelligence community as military

340
00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:20,480
planners

341
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:21,680
one of the things that we're always

342
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,160
taught from day one is when you do any

343
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,399
course of action planning

344
00:12:30,870 --> 00:12:28,959
you plan for the most likely

345
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:30,880
enemy course of action to oppose your

346
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,120
plan but you also

347
00:12:37,430 --> 00:12:35,200
you also always plan for the most

348
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:37,440
dangerous course of action that could

349
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:40,399
affect your plan i mean that is that is

350
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:43,920
planning 101 for any of our joint

351
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:45,839
services so

352
00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:48,079
i can i can say with some

353
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,000
assurance that

354
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:52,320
members are senior military members did

355
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:53,279
the

356
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,760
most dangerous course of action planning

357
00:13:00,150 --> 00:12:57,760
and that's again i can't wait to see the

358
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,160
real after action on this

359
00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:02,399
but then what was done with that was it

360
00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:06,079
ignored was it assumed away i mean that

361
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,600
i think that's part of the crux of the

362
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,519
problem because i can i'm just saying

363
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,360
that's it's very basic most dangerous

364
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:12,959
course of action is

365
00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:15,120
the military the afghan international

366
00:13:18,949 --> 00:13:16,800
army collapses

367
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:18,959
we've already evacuated some

368
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:21,120
some level of

369
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,079
force

370
00:13:25,350 --> 00:13:23,760
and now we're responding to crisis

371
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,360
that's that's the most dangerous course

372
00:13:31,509 --> 00:13:27,920
of action so

373
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:31,519
i'm very curious about that plan

374
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:32,720
yeah in other words there had to be a

375
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,279
plan for the taliban to take over kabul

376
00:13:39,189 --> 00:13:37,440
what what happens when that takes place

377
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:39,199
and and by the way that could have

378
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:40,399
happened

379
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,720
immediately which it did or it could

380
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:44,079
have happened a month or two down the

381
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,760
road and either way

382
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:47,120
it would have been a great situation

383
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:49,920
because it seems to me that's when

384
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:52,480
all of the americans

385
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:55,120
are wanting to get out is once they take

386
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:57,040
over kabul i mean i don't think there

387
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:58,959
was necessarily a thought that everybody

388
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:01,279
was going to have to evacuate i mean

389
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:04,160
what about our embassy was it assumed

390
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:06,079
that america was going to give up our

391
00:14:15,030 --> 00:14:10,079
embassy in kabul but it's now been

392
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,710
i'd be hard-pressed to think that that

393
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:18,399
was in the list of assumptions that we

394
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,160
were just going to walk away from that

395
00:14:23,910 --> 00:14:22,480
multi multi-million dollar structure

396
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:23,920
overnight

397
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:24,720
right

398
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:25,600
whether it would have happened

399
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,240
immediately as it did or even you know

400
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:30,560
when the taliban eventually

401
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:31,839
took over

402
00:14:35,750 --> 00:14:34,000
kabul i mean here we are negotiating

403
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:35,760
with the taliban

404
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:38,000
right we're assuming that you can have

405
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:40,079
diplomatic relations with the taliban

406
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,440
because we were having them we were

407
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:43,360
negotiating with that we struck a deal

408
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,959
with him that's the whole point of

409
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:46,959
having an embassy is that you've got a

410
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,360
relationship with the senate and

411
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,760
whatever deal we struck with the taliban

412
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:53,760
in in in doha

413
00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,800
you would have thought that that

414
00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:57,040
included us keeping an embassy

415
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,880
in afghanistan

416
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:00,959
and yet our

417
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:03,440
embassy is gone i mean it's just

418
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:04,560
stunning

419
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:05,440
right

420
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,440
so many things that don't make sense um

421
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:09,199
and i won't repeat what i said earlier

422
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:09,920
but

423
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:11,760
one of the one of the big ones we we

424
00:15:15,670 --> 00:15:13,519
just talked about which is that most

425
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,680
dangerous course of action planning

426
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:18,160
but but even if you sort of set that

427
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,160
aside for a minute

428
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:22,800
even though there's a basic sequence of

429
00:15:27,990 --> 00:15:25,120
events here and general bishop alluded

430
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,000
to this too that was just not followed

431
00:15:32,629 --> 00:15:30,560
in a common sense way i mean a lot of

432
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:32,639
people have loved have really enjoyed

433
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,720
drawing the parallel between saigon and

434
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:36,320
75

435
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:37,680
i mean they're not they're not really

436
00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:41,040
great analogies but even in saigon in 75

437
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:43,279
we actually had a plan you know we

438
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:45,199
really had a plan we

439
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,930
we got

440
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,360
[Music]

441
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:49,600
an idea of who our citizens were where

442
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,399
they were we established a code message

443
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:54,720
on voice of america radio that we were

444
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:56,800
broadcast so people could move to the

445
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,839
help help pads on top of buildings

446
00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:01,759
i mean there was a plan

447
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:03,040
so

448
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:06,320
i just i i look at this lack of a plan

449
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,360
and i'm just

450
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,120
i'm just

451
00:16:13,030 --> 00:16:11,199
flabbergasted

452
00:16:15,749 --> 00:16:13,040
and i know it's boring to go back to

453
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:15,759
pubs but i mean that's why you have

454
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:19,839
joint pubs joint club 3-68

455
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:21,199
neos

456
00:16:25,110 --> 00:16:23,199
lays all of this stuff out i mean it

457
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,120
just seems like it was never taken off

458
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:27,360
the shelf another great example

459
00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:31,120
is it talks about multinational planning

460
00:16:34,629 --> 00:16:33,040
since many evacuations of all other

461
00:16:36,949 --> 00:16:34,639
countries potential use of a

462
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:36,959
multinational force in a neo should be a

463
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:39,440
planning consideration where was that

464
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:41,279
i mean we've heard from our allies

465
00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:42,880
saying hey you just left in the middle

466
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,310
i know both of you have been critical of

467
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,560
the direction our military has been

468
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:52,720
going as far as leadership and

469
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,519
you know

470
00:16:57,990 --> 00:16:55,839
the wokeness the woke culture that has

471
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:58,000
taken over and so on

472
00:17:02,790 --> 00:16:59,519
do you think that what we're seeing in

473
00:17:05,270 --> 00:17:02,800
afghanistan is a manifestation of some

474
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:05,280
of these problems of what it takes to be

475
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,400
promoted

476
00:17:10,630 --> 00:17:08,400
in the military ranks these days isn't

477
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:10,640
necessarily all about the best and the

478
00:17:13,669 --> 00:17:11,760
brightest

479
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:13,679
so jim you'll you'll appreciate this

480
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:15,520
answer because the lawyers have advised

481
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,720
me

482
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,720
before if i answer that question to make

483
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:20,559
sure that i'm stating it

484
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:23,199
as an individual person and not as the

485
00:17:27,909 --> 00:17:25,039
president of stand together against

486
00:17:29,350 --> 00:17:27,919
racism and radicalism and services so

487
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:29,360
my own opinion

488
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,640
uh before i've heard it said on tv a

489
00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:34,799
number of times now last week i said gee

490
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:37,280
i guess i wish the chairman

491
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:39,280
was paying a much attention to

492
00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,840
understanding how to conduct the meal as

493
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:44,000
he as he wanted to be about

494
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:47,600
understanding white rage so

495
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:50,400
is it a distraction for the leadership

496
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:52,799
um you'd have to think it plays a role i

497
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:54,960
mean i think senator cotton does an

498
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:57,760
excellent job of describing

499
00:18:01,029 --> 00:17:59,679
how you're just trying to shoehorn so

500
00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:01,039
much more

501
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:04,240
on the plate of somebody in training

502
00:18:08,150 --> 00:18:05,039
well

503
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:08,160
you know back in june and july when

504
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:08,960
the

505
00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:10,640
defense department leadership was

506
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:12,840
testifying and there was a lot of

507
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:16,880
discussion and a lot of thought given to

508
00:18:21,669 --> 00:18:19,039
uh critical race theory are we teaching

509
00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:21,679
it in dod or not

510
00:18:24,950 --> 00:18:23,440
when really it seems to me maybe the

511
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,960
focus should have been on

512
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:26,640
what are we doing across

513
00:18:30,549 --> 00:18:28,000
across the farm

514
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:30,559
across the seas they're in afghanistan

515
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:32,960
personal opinion

516
00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:36,000
yeah i'll chime into um

517
00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,000
you know we're there's a there's a lot

518
00:18:42,630 --> 00:18:40,720
of us that are concerned that it is

519
00:18:45,669 --> 00:18:42,640
seeping into the culture

520
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:45,679
with a very corrosive effect um

521
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:48,000
but i will tell you this as a fact and

522
00:18:51,029 --> 00:18:49,039
i've got

523
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,039
some fairly recent experience with this

524
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,960
as a you know only retired for a few

525
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,080
years

526
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:56,960
is if you line up all the units across

527
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,320
the services and and uh

528
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:02,640
or or validate their training

529
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,679
requirements on sexual assault equal

530
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,600
opportunity

531
00:19:11,750 --> 00:19:09,440
gender awareness

532
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,760
you can go down the list they'll be able

533
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,000
to show you that they're 100 compliant

534
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:16,640
or 99 compliant

535
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,400
um

536
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:20,640
but you you go talk about operational

537
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:23,760
readiness rates and training levels and

538
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:26,080
collective training levels wartime

539
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:28,400
readiness footings

540
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:29,919
it's uh

541
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,919
they will not be able to address that as

542
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:33,760
well and so

543
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,080
at some point of course it it has to

544
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:38,720
have a crowding out effect on

545
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:40,480
war fighting readiness i think that's

546
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,880
just a it's a little bit of a zero-sum

547
00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:44,880
game you only have so many

548
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:47,200
days on a training calendar hours on a

549
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:48,480
training day

550
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,160
but i guarantee you they're 100

551
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:53,360
compliant on those politically correct

552
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,960
uh criteria

553
00:19:58,230 --> 00:19:56,400
does that crowd out warfighting

554
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:58,240
readiness

555
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:59,679
my assumption is

556
00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:00,400
it

557
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,480
naturally does

558
00:20:08,149 --> 00:20:04,880
and what about affirmative action in the

559
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,159
military and the impact that that has on

560
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:10,159
leadership on morale

561
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:12,000
you know and primarily when it comes to

562
00:20:17,350 --> 00:20:14,480
promotions i mean are we promoting the

563
00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,360
absolute best highest most qualified

564
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:19,679
people up the ranks

565
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:21,600
or is a faction getting in the way of

566
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:26,230
general petty since you're you're you're

567
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:29,120
most recently in i mean

568
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:31,120
how much affirmative action did you see

569
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:32,799
at play because i i've heard lots of

570
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,799
anecdotal stories about affirmative

571
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:37,200
action in the military

572
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,480
yeah

573
00:20:42,630 --> 00:20:40,400
i mean

574
00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:42,640
if you understand large bureaucratic

575
00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:44,400
organizations you understand that these

576
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,520
things are inevitable and some of the

577
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:49,600
societal pressures and the political

578
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:52,480
pressures clearly hold its way

579
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,760
the uh

580
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:54,960
you know and i don't want to indict

581
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:57,039
anybody specifically because i just

582
00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:59,280
think there's cultural

583
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:01,600
institutional pressures to do these

584
00:21:03,750 --> 00:21:02,720
things

585
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:03,760
um

586
00:21:09,029 --> 00:21:06,400
and the risk of speaking out of school i

587
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:09,039
i will say that i was just made aware

588
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:10,320
and i've got to do the research because

589
00:21:14,789 --> 00:21:11,679
i got to figure out the ground truth on

590
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:14,799
this i was just made aware that the navy

591
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:17,520
i i think it was the navy um

592
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,559
they started masking photos on promotion

593
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:22,880
boards so you couldn't tell the race or

594
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,880
sex of the applicant for a promotion

595
00:21:28,230 --> 00:21:25,840
book

596
00:21:31,190 --> 00:21:28,240
and they realized that uh

597
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:31,200
that had that had backfired and so

598
00:21:35,510 --> 00:21:33,120
so now they're they're going back to the

599
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,520
photograph so they can help you know

600
00:21:39,190 --> 00:21:37,679
adjust some of those numbers so

601
00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:39,200
you know there's all kinds of attempts

602
00:21:45,669 --> 00:21:41,919
going on to create you know the modern

603
00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:45,679
buzzword of equity which is is a whole

604
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:48,159
you know strange term that we can debate

605
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:50,799
yeah well equity

606
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:52,720
sorry but but yeah that's an interesting

607
00:21:57,430 --> 00:21:55,039
story about masking the pictures that

608
00:21:59,750 --> 00:21:57,440
would be what they call equality where

609
00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:59,760
we do not consider somebody's race or

610
00:22:04,870 --> 00:22:02,240
sex in a promotion so i'm i'm good with

611
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,880
the masking of the pictures equity is

612
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:06,159
where you know you're supposed to look

613
00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:07,760
at the picture and you're supposed to

614
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,720
recognize that for the black individual

615
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,880
there's been systemic racism that that

616
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,640
person has to deal with for the female

617
00:22:18,870 --> 00:22:16,480
there's been systemic sexism they've had

618
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,880
to deal with and and you know equity is

619
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:20,880
basically affirmative action whereas

620
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:23,919
equality is colorblind

621
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,960
right

622
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,720
i i can tell you this and i think i

623
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:28,640
think general bishop will agree with me

624
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:31,520
as we grow up in the military and he's a

625
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,679
few years older than me for sure but

626
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:35,520
you know for the last 30 years that i

627
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,720
know of

628
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:38,720
you know i worked for

629
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:42,240
excellent black officers female officers

630
00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:46,240
it just didn't matter it wasn't an issue

631
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:48,080
i know there was some race issues back

632
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:50,880
in the 70s post-vietnam i i understand

633
00:22:54,230 --> 00:22:51,760
that

634
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:54,240
but in my experience over you know three

635
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:57,760
decades in uniform it was just never

636
00:23:03,350 --> 00:23:00,159
an uh a corrosive influence it was never

637
00:23:05,909 --> 00:23:03,360
in us versus them it it never took away

638
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,919
from the value of the team

639
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:07,440
and now all of a sudden

640
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:09,679
it's everywhere all of a sudden it's

641
00:23:14,470 --> 00:23:11,919
everywhere as uh

642
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,480
uh you know tearing apart the the team

643
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,080
and making people

644
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:18,320
pitting one group against another

645
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:19,840
it's just not my experience how about

646
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:22,960
you general bishop

647
00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:25,120
one of the zoo meetings we had with the

648
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:26,559
superintendent

649
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,960
of the air force academy

650
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:31,440
regarding the black lives matter video

651
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:32,559
jim

652
00:23:38,710 --> 00:23:35,360
he had quote a number of

653
00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,720
black retired general officers on his

654
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,480
side

655
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:42,960
and my response when i was told that

656
00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:45,440
is there should be no sides

657
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:47,279
on this issue

658
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:49,440
that being said one of the black general

659
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:50,880
officers

660
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,720
said to me

661
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:55,440
that the people who are least likely to

662
00:24:00,149 --> 00:23:56,799
see

663
00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:00,159
discrimination among

664
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:02,080
black and white in particular in the

665
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:05,600
services are white general officers

666
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:08,240
so i took that on board i've had a

667
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:10,720
number of conversations with other

668
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:11,600
white

669
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:14,559
uh general officers like chris

670
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:17,039
one was retired four star who served 42

671
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:19,120
years and i asked him how many

672
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:21,520
racial incidents had he seen and he said

673
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,480
none

674
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,640
well i had seen one so my personal

675
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:27,200
experience kind of goes along with what

676
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,640
chris says

677
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:30,559
but i think going back to your original

678
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:31,840
question

679
00:24:36,230 --> 00:24:34,480
is is there affirmative action

680
00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:36,240
unfortunately i guess we have to admit

681
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:39,600
it i had a conversation not too long ago

682
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,520
with a senior person

683
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:44,080
at air force personnel regarding matthew

684
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:45,360
lohmeir

685
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:47,279
and i've known this individual for a

686
00:24:51,909 --> 00:24:49,760
long time and in the end

687
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:51,919
the conversation she kind of concluded

688
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:54,640
well all things being equal

689
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:57,760
if it comes down between a female

690
00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:59,279
a minority

691
00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:01,039
and a white male

692
00:25:04,149 --> 00:25:02,320
the white male is going to be

693
00:25:05,669 --> 00:25:04,159
discriminated against in today's

694
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:05,679
political environment

695
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:07,520
which i think was what chris was

696
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,710
yeah yeah i i've and i've seen it

697
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,880
through many many personal stories that

698
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,200
i've heard of uh regarding promotions in

699
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:19,600
the military um okay

700
00:25:23,350 --> 00:25:21,200
let's go back to the kind of the second

701
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:23,360
subject which is the nation building

702
00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:24,159
that

703
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:29,120
going to stand as this

704
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,120
uh example that's going to be pointed to

705
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:32,880
that's going to cause america to

706
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,080
certainly

707
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,480
not engage in this type of nation and

708
00:25:40,350 --> 00:25:38,400
military building again i mean the the

709
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,360
amount of money spent is

710
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,039
astronomical uh the time spent the

711
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:45,679
resources and and manpower and of course

712
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:48,960
casualties um trying to

713
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,200
create a stable country in the middle

714
00:25:55,350 --> 00:25:53,679
east that has utterly failed and if you

715
00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:55,360
look at it now

716
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,559
it's

717
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:58,640
arguably more dangerous than it was when

718
00:26:02,310 --> 00:26:00,799
we went in considering what we left the

719
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:02,320
taliban with which was billions of

720
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:05,840
dollars worth of weapons and so on so

721
00:26:10,549 --> 00:26:08,080
i'd like each of you to weigh in on

722
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:10,559
what should have been the mission

723
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:12,159
we've got the benefit of hindsight now

724
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,440
but and we'll take the benefit of

725
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:15,600
hindsight but uh in light of what

726
00:26:20,789 --> 00:26:17,679
happened in 911

727
00:26:23,830 --> 00:26:20,799
al qaeda being uh in afghanistan the

728
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:23,840
taliban uh protecting them essentially

729
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:25,679
um and

730
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:28,000
we're coming off of

731
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:29,279
911

732
00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:30,640
what should have been the original

733
00:26:34,549 --> 00:26:33,360
mission in afghanistan

734
00:26:35,669 --> 00:26:34,559
you know patty

735
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:35,679
general bishop

736
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:36,559
yeah

737
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:39,360
general bishop

738
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:41,360
okay uh yeah let me just take you back

739
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,200
to uh 9 11.

740
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:45,120
uh on 9 11

741
00:26:49,669 --> 00:26:47,760
i was at u.s southern command

742
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:49,679
and we evacuated the building because we

743
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:51,520
are right under the final approach fix

744
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:52,880
for miami

745
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:54,559
and you know we have airplanes going to

746
00:26:58,710 --> 00:26:57,200
the pentagon the twin towers we go oh

747
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:58,720
you know this may be deeper than we

748
00:27:01,750 --> 00:27:00,400
thought so the four star said let's get

749
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:01,760
out of here

750
00:27:04,950 --> 00:27:03,520
the next morning we had to battle our

751
00:27:07,430 --> 00:27:04,960
way through force

752
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,440
protection con delta to get back into

753
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:08,799
the building

754
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,520
and we at southern command had to

755
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,440
like all the other combat commands had

756
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:15,200
24 hours

757
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,679
to respond to what are our

758
00:27:20,789 --> 00:27:19,600
recommendations for this global war of

759
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:20,799
terrorism

760
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:23,279
so we didn't say much about afghanistan

761
00:27:26,789 --> 00:27:24,960
because our part of the world was

762
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,799
working with the interagency southern

763
00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:28,880
command as the bottom feeder

764
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:30,720
of all the combatant commands in terms

765
00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:32,080
of money

766
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:34,480
so we recommended three things

767
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:36,080
two of them were instituted within a

768
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,240
year one was stand up a combatant

769
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:41,279
command with a inland uh an inward focus

770
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,399
homeland

771
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:44,320
security type of thing northern command

772
00:27:50,710 --> 00:27:46,840
was split up in less than a year

773
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:50,720
uh set up a department that has that

774
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:52,480
brings all the disparate intelligence

775
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:54,000
agencies to get

776
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:56,000
together to focus on

777
00:27:59,990 --> 00:27:58,000
inward security the department of

778
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,000
homeland security was set up

779
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,799
within us within a year and i'm giving

780
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,399
you this background because the next one

781
00:28:08,149 --> 00:28:06,480
nobody did anything either under bush or

782
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:08,159
president obama until president trump

783
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:09,200
came along

784
00:28:14,149 --> 00:28:12,080
and that was we reasoned that if

785
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:14,159
uh enough drugs were coming through our

786
00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:16,799
poorest southern border to kill 30 000

787
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:18,880
americans a year terrorists

788
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:21,039
could use those same networks so some

789
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,080
same roadways the same contacts etc

790
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:25,840
to infiltrate our country with

791
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,360
terrorist-like activities hopefully

792
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:30,080
that's not going to be a case

793
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:33,120
but we lost a lot of our assets

794
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,399
to

795
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:36,159
afghanistan

796
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:39,440
we had a bunch of predators all lined up

797
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:40,960
because we have pretty much shut off the

798
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:43,360
drug flow by air in the sea but that

799
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:46,240
poor southern border was just uh

800
00:28:50,789 --> 00:28:48,159
was just for reports

801
00:28:52,549 --> 00:28:50,799
and so uh we had some predators lined up

802
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:52,559
to help us shore that up

803
00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:55,279
we had worked some uh wait sorry you're

804
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:57,600
talking about predator drones right and

805
00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:58,559
are you talking sorry are you talking

806
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:01,440
about the southern border with mexico or

807
00:29:04,389 --> 00:29:03,679
that we were using predator drones there

808
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:04,399
to

809
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:05,840
we just had them lined up we hadn't

810
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:07,919
deployed them and neither there or off

811
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:09,600
the coast of columbia

812
00:29:14,310 --> 00:29:12,799
to kind of clamp down on this but

813
00:29:16,310 --> 00:29:14,320
because of

814
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:16,320
the drug and this is a long way to get

815
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:18,080
to your answer jim i apologize but

816
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,360
because of

817
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:21,919
the taliban's major source of income

818
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:23,600
being poppy

819
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:27,200
uh we lost all of those uh you know

820
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:28,080
eyes

821
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:30,080
that we had planned

822
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:31,840
so it seemed like

823
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:34,159
uh right then and there not too long

824
00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:36,799
after 9 11 the mission

825
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:38,159
uh had

826
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,480
creeped in afghanistan from one of

827
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:42,000
counter terrorism

828
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:44,480
to something else and it wasn't clear to

829
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,039
me what that something else was until my

830
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:49,360
next assignment was in the tank and then

831
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:51,760
i'm in the tank and it seemed like okay

832
00:29:58,149 --> 00:29:55,039
now we're more into a counter insurgency

833
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:58,159
and then pretty clearly it seemed like

834
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:01,520
we had moved the the the

835
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:03,440
goal post so to speak that we were a

836
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:05,440
nation builder and

837
00:30:08,789 --> 00:30:07,679
my that was why i was pressing for

838
00:30:11,269 --> 00:30:08,799
metrics

839
00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:11,279
if we're going to be nation building

840
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:13,200
we have to realize

841
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:14,159
that

842
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,200
american political resolve

843
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:19,760
blows with which direction the political

844
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,200
winds are blowing

845
00:30:25,269 --> 00:30:23,440
we can look back at afghanistan and see

846
00:30:27,590 --> 00:30:25,279
what happened

847
00:30:29,669 --> 00:30:27,600
so if we're gonna go into

848
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,679
um nation building

849
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:31,679
is there some declaration are we letting

850
00:30:34,830 --> 00:30:33,279
the american people know that this is

851
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:34,840
what we're gonna be about

852
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:38,000
or are we just going to do it and it was

853
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:40,799
kind of reminded me of a number of other

854
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,279
operations where something just gets a

855
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,039
momentum of its own

856
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,520
and it just happens and it wasn't very

857
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:49,279
clear even

858
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,399
even in

859
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:51,840
the center

860
00:30:56,230 --> 00:30:54,159
conference room of the belly of the

861
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:56,240
joint chiefs of staff it just wasn't

862
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,120
clear

863
00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:59,360
that this is what we're about

864
00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:01,600
what do i think it should have been i

865
00:31:05,909 --> 00:31:03,760
don't think we should have personally

866
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:05,919
not about nation building i mean it's

867
00:31:09,669 --> 00:31:07,600
it's great that

868
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:09,679
i guess half the afghanis alive today

869
00:31:13,830 --> 00:31:12,080
have never lived under california

870
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,840
and maybe that will

871
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:15,039
bode well

872
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:16,399
uh for

873
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:17,919
the future of their country they've had

874
00:31:21,669 --> 00:31:19,919
a taste of freedom but

875
00:31:23,350 --> 00:31:21,679
it sure didn't do much in the last two

876
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:23,360
months

877
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:27,039
so so sorry to be clear then um

878
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:30,080
you're saying we should have gone in

879
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,600
taking out al qaeda to the extent we

880
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:33,919
could debilitate the taliban to the

881
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:36,240
extent we could or get some retribution

882
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:37,519
uh to to

883
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:39,039
to show them that hey don't mess with

884
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:40,320
the u.s

885
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:41,360
um

886
00:31:47,110 --> 00:31:43,760
and get bin laden which ultimately

887
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,120
happened in pakistan years later but

888
00:31:50,549 --> 00:31:49,279
disrupt everything that's going on there

889
00:31:52,389 --> 00:31:50,559
and get out

890
00:31:54,070 --> 00:31:52,399
is that what you say should have been

891
00:31:57,269 --> 00:31:54,080
the mission i'm not sure that i would

892
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:57,279
have said get out i would have wanted to

893
00:32:00,870 --> 00:31:58,960
have better clarity on what the

894
00:32:03,269 --> 00:32:00,880
intelligence was what we were gaining

895
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,279
from the intelligence i mean this is a

896
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:04,880
bad part of the world

897
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,399
to have had

898
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,399
that capability in the com i mean i'm

899
00:32:12,070 --> 00:32:10,240
not lobbying for

900
00:32:13,029 --> 00:32:12,080
keeping a large number of american

901
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:13,039
troops

902
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,480
there

903
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:16,480
i'm not sure we should have lost so many

904
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:18,799
lives trying to

905
00:32:22,789 --> 00:32:21,200
pacify and maybe democracize the whole

906
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,799
the whole country

907
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,799
but we had a very good intel source in

908
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,399
the you know an important part of the

909
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,559
world and we've just kind of walked away

910
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:31,120
from it i would have stuck more to the

911
00:32:33,909 --> 00:32:32,640
counter terrorism

912
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:33,919
maybe a little bit of a counter

913
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:36,080
insurgency type nation so so you think

914
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,000
we could have theoretically kept a base

915
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:40,320
there without

916
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:43,840
creating this new afghan government and

917
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:45,519
theoretically the taliban could have

918
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,720
continued to

919
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,960
run the country with a u.s base

920
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,240
in afghanistan

921
00:32:54,789 --> 00:32:52,159
well i'm not sure the

922
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,799
the taliban would have um

923
00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,120
you know we we had pretty much had the

924
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:59,200
taliban on the run i remember talking

925
00:33:03,269 --> 00:33:00,399
with a

926
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,279
retired or now retired three-star but my

927
00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:05,120
one-time boss who is head of the air

928
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:07,360
force special operations

929
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:09,760
he was very very proud of

930
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:12,080
what uh air force special ops had done

931
00:33:15,830 --> 00:33:14,000
with the guys on horseback

932
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,840
early in the war

933
00:33:19,830 --> 00:33:16,880
so

934
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,840
i i just think we potentially moved too

935
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:21,360
fast to that

936
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:23,600
nation-building mission without enough

937
00:33:30,549 --> 00:33:28,549
there may have been something less than

938
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,559
that is what i'm doing

939
00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:32,000
yeah i mean it requires congress to

940
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:35,039
declare war but um who is it that has to

941
00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,480
declare nation building because the war

942
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,399
creeped into nation building clearly and

943
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:42,480
i think that was a bush decision as far

944
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:44,559
as i could tell he wanted to democratize

945
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:46,000
the middle east that was kind of a

946
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:47,519
mission that he was

947
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:49,840
on but i think that you make a great

948
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:51,279
point about the political side of things

949
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:52,640
when you talk about the united states of

950
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,200
america where the executive the

951
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,200
commander-in-chief can change every four

952
00:34:01,909 --> 00:33:59,200
years not to mention congress and

953
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:01,919
everything else that we don't you know

954
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:04,000
we can't make 30-year plans like china

955
00:34:08,710 --> 00:34:05,120
can

956
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:08,720
and four years because it could be

957
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:11,280
changed by the civilian

958
00:34:15,829 --> 00:34:13,520
military civilian controlled military at

959
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:15,839
any time and and that limitation on

960
00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:18,240
america's ability to conduct nation

961
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,879
building needs to be recognized and and

962
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:22,240
maybe that's

963
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,879
one of the results of afghanistan uh

964
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,560
general petty

965
00:34:30,550 --> 00:34:28,480
yeah i would uh i'm i'm pretty much

966
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:30,560
aligned with general bishop on this one

967
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,639
i'll just add a couple of things

968
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:34,720
i think i think it'd be difficult to

969
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,639
argue with you know going in and

970
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:39,119
striking hard at the

971
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:41,839
taliban and hunting down bin laden was

972
00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:44,960
an appropriate response for before 9 11

973
00:34:48,470 --> 00:34:46,560
i think all of america was on board with

974
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,480
that so i think

975
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,800
that was good and that that policy

976
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:53,040
decision was good and i think you had a

977
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:55,919
mill a reasonable military

978
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:59,680
uh objective in mind to make that happen

979
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:02,079
and i i absolutely agree with general

980
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:03,760
bishop that the

981
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:07,119
that things really started to morph and

982
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:08,800
mission creep

983
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:11,680
over those years um

984
00:35:16,150 --> 00:35:14,320
and you know all of a sudden we're

985
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,160
we're moving from you know topple the

986
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:18,400
taliban and hunt the bad guys and

987
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,200
prevent afghanistan from being a

988
00:35:24,550 --> 00:35:23,440
uh launching pad for future terror

989
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:24,560
strikes to

990
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:28,560
creating a gender sensitive multi-ethnic

991
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:30,880
democratic state that's a that is a

992
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:34,400
gigantic change of mission

993
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,400
you know we it happened over time so you

994
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:38,480
didn't notice it as the

995
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:40,640
stark contrast that it just sounded when

996
00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,880
i said it but i mean there's a that's a

997
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:44,640
significant change

998
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:47,680
um and what what frustrates me

999
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:50,160
as a guy who studies this sometimes is

1000
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:52,960
we've got a pretty bad record with

1001
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,400
lately you know last 70 years or so of

1002
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,720
analyzing the operating environment that

1003
00:36:01,430 --> 00:36:00,079
we're planning

1004
00:36:04,390 --> 00:36:01,440
to

1005
00:36:06,790 --> 00:36:04,400
shape with some foreign policy

1006
00:36:08,630 --> 00:36:06,800
goal you know afghanistan in this case

1007
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:08,640
was the operating environment that we

1008
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:11,760
wanted to go in and do things to create

1009
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:12,400
a

1010
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:19,119
so

1011
00:36:23,109 --> 00:36:20,240
you know we

1012
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:23,119
we failed miserably at understanding the

1013
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:27,040
environment and its history of of uh you

1014
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:29,680
know tribal factions and

1015
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:32,079
distrust of central authority

1016
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:34,240
and the literacy of our population makes

1017
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:36,240
it hard to even train them on you know

1018
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,640
rifle marksmanship um

1019
00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:41,280
we you know the terrorist safe haven in

1020
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:43,920
pakistan i mean there's so many things

1021
00:36:48,270 --> 00:36:46,160
that line up against

1022
00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,280
a strong uh

1023
00:36:52,390 --> 00:36:50,640
counterinsurgency type strategy as

1024
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:52,400
general bishop mentioned

1025
00:36:55,510 --> 00:36:53,920
that if you're just doing a logical

1026
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,520
assessment of your operating environment

1027
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,680
to see if your end state policy goals

1028
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:58,880
are realistic

1029
00:37:02,470 --> 00:37:00,640
you would you conclude that they're just

1030
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:02,480
not realistic and

1031
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:04,800
again hindsight's 2020 but

1032
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,200
but i'm i'm really disappointed

1033
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:09,680
that the war changed over time and

1034
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:10,880
nobody

1035
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:15,520
and i remember when i was in afghanistan

1036
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:16,400
getting

1037
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:18,800
briefings from the top generals and the

1038
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:19,520
top

1039
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:22,079
state department officials and even the

1040
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:24,640
minister of defense from afghanistan

1041
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:27,520
it was clear to me that

1042
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:29,680
that we had

1043
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:34,240
lost our way and it was difficult to

1044
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:37,520
put into words how we had lost our way

1045
00:37:40,550 --> 00:37:38,880
because everyone was

1046
00:37:42,470 --> 00:37:40,560
rolling the oars and everyone was on the

1047
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:42,480
team and everyone was doing good metrics

1048
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:44,720
as general bishop pointed out

1049
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:45,599
but

1050
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,880
senior military member like well not

1051
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:53,040
name said uh

1052
00:37:57,589 --> 00:37:55,280
said chris this isn't switzerland we're

1053
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:57,599
basically keeping pressure on 20

1054
00:38:00,870 --> 00:37:59,440
terrorist organizations

1055
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,880
i mean that's kind of

1056
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:02,880
his summary of the mission

1057
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:06,079
which didn't sound a lot like gender

1058
00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:08,720
sensitive multi-ethnic democracy in the

1059
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:10,240
middle east so

1060
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:11,680
it was never

1061
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,079
incongruence and it's a real problem

1062
00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:15,839
that we've had i think we're going to

1063
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:19,040
continue to have till we figure this out

1064
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:22,480
yeah jim just to uh to tag on to that

1065
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:24,800
chris is bringing back memories so i

1066
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:27,599
shared with you my stories in the tank

1067
00:38:33,589 --> 00:38:30,400
25 2005

1068
00:38:37,589 --> 00:38:33,599
basically 2004 2005.

1069
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:37,599
when i retired 2009 2010

1070
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:39,760
i was what was called an air force

1071
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:41,280
senior mentor

1072
00:38:47,990 --> 00:38:45,680
and for the first year i could not go to

1073
00:38:49,990 --> 00:38:48,000
air force exercises

1074
00:38:51,910 --> 00:38:50,000
so i because you can't talk to people of

1075
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:51,920
your own service for a year as a retired

1076
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:53,440
flag officer

1077
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:57,839
so i was uh with at with all the army

1078
00:39:03,750 --> 00:39:00,640
units spinning up for taking command

1079
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:03,760
either in afghanistan or iraq

1080
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,079
and they had moved

1081
00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:08,240
from now having metrics

1082
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:09,400
from

1083
00:39:13,349 --> 00:39:11,359
2004-2005 they didn't

1084
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:13,359
they didn't have any now now they would

1085
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:15,839
inundate you with metrics from the state

1086
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,440
department all

1087
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:18,960
different areas where they thought

1088
00:39:22,870 --> 00:39:21,520
progress was being made

1089
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:22,880
but i

1090
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:24,960
will tell you honestly

1091
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,800
you just had to think to yourself okay

1092
00:39:32,950 --> 00:39:30,560
the same question that was asked of

1093
00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,960
general miller will the afghan military

1094
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,560
have the resolve

1095
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:36,640
you know klauswicz talks about the moral

1096
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:37,920
factor

1097
00:39:41,430 --> 00:39:39,760
being three times more important than

1098
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:41,440
the physical factor

1099
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:43,839
will they be there well

1100
00:39:48,069 --> 00:39:45,760
i think they pretty much were there i

1101
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:48,079
mean they've lost 60 000

1102
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:50,720
people over the last several years

1103
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:53,680
we had what 8 000 nato troops 2500 or so

1104
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:56,079
americans they were pretty well there

1105
00:40:00,470 --> 00:39:58,480
but what in the world could we possibly

1106
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:00,480
have expected

1107
00:40:03,829 --> 00:40:02,560
when you're gonna pack up

1108
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:03,839
walk away

1109
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:06,400
you're not there anymore we taught them

1110
00:40:10,309 --> 00:40:08,880
how to fight with close air support i

1111
00:40:12,069 --> 00:40:10,319
remember the chief of staff for the air

1112
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:12,079
force telling me one time before i went

1113
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:13,200
to

1114
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,440
one of those army exercises rod tell the

1115
00:40:19,109 --> 00:40:17,280
army that we want to be there every time

1116
00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:19,119
they knock on the door we want to have

1117
00:40:23,270 --> 00:40:21,040
that overwatch

1118
00:40:25,270 --> 00:40:23,280
so now if you put yourself in the

1119
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:25,280
position of a

1120
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:28,160
afghan army soldier when you no longer

1121
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:29,920
have that overwatch

1122
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:31,760
you have all the people that have

1123
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:35,119
trained you packing up and leaving

1124
00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:37,680
what are you going to decide

1125
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,520
do i want to hurt turn over my gun and

1126
00:40:43,510 --> 00:40:41,760
maybe my family will live

1127
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,520
or am i going to fight without the

1128
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:46,079
capabilities that i've had for the last

1129
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,030
it it sounds as if you're saying general

1130
00:40:57,190 --> 00:40:55,440
bishop that while perhaps there was a

1131
00:40:58,950 --> 00:40:57,200
lot of mission creep and we should have

1132
00:41:01,670 --> 00:40:58,960
gotten in and out a lot more quickly

1133
00:41:03,030 --> 00:41:01,680
that considering ultimately

1134
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:03,040
what we did end up

1135
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:05,599
spending there and you know the 20-year

1136
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:08,240
effort and the trillion dollar effort

1137
00:41:14,309 --> 00:41:10,800
that once you get to that point

1138
00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:14,319
that to just abandon it as we did

1139
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:17,200
wasn't wise that okay maybe we should

1140
00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:18,560
have been there for 20 years but since

1141
00:41:22,630 --> 00:41:21,520
we were and we didn't go that far

1142
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:22,640
my gosh

1143
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,720
keep the 2500 there

1144
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:26,480
to at least you know

1145
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:28,400
keep your presence there and and and

1146
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:30,319
keep a close eye on

1147
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:33,040
what the terrorist groups are doing and

1148
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:34,720
try to

1149
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,119
keep that that government afloat with

1150
00:41:41,430 --> 00:41:39,040
2500 troops which as you say is less

1151
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,440
than what's on an aircraft carrier

1152
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:43,520
well that's the way i i personally feel

1153
00:41:49,030 --> 00:41:46,880
and i i guess i just talked him back

1154
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:49,040
to uh i mean this has been a tough week

1155
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:50,079
and a half

1156
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,280
um

1157
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:53,839
when i think of all those

1158
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:56,400
six in the morning until 8 p.m days in

1159
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,800
the pentagon for a couple of years

1160
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:01,200
at least i got to come home to a warm

1161
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,960
house and i have all my

1162
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:04,880
body parts

1163
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:07,200
um when i think of the sacrifice and you

1164
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,480
know i see the

1165
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:10,480
congressmen who are vets

1166
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:12,640
saying that their sacrifice was not in

1167
00:42:16,630 --> 00:42:14,160
vain that kept us

1168
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:16,640
safe for 20 years well

1169
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:18,960
could maybe uh this minimal commitment

1170
00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:20,960
that we're making

1171
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:23,520
uh kept us free from

1172
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,119
potential terrorist activities for

1173
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:27,440
another 20. i mean we have what 30 000

1174
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:28,960
people and

1175
00:42:31,349 --> 00:42:30,240
in

1176
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:31,359
korea

1177
00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:34,319
we have case i don't know when i left

1178
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:38,560
nato in 2008 we had 32 000 airmen just

1179
00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:39,599
in europe

1180
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:41,200
let alone what the army and the other

1181
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:43,440
services done

1182
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:46,000
so uh i guess

1183
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:47,839
why i don't like the nation building

1184
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,839
role so much is because

1185
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,920
we've seen it happen again i mean the

1186
00:42:54,550 --> 00:42:53,440
political winds blow a different

1187
00:42:56,870 --> 00:42:54,560
direction

1188
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:56,880
and we pull ourselves away from

1189
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:00,240
the mission if we more clearly define a

1190
00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:02,400
smaller mission set

1191
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:04,240
can we have a bigger impact and be

1192
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:05,599
successful

1193
00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:12,390
yeah this is a this is not a new concept

1194
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:13,520
the uh

1195
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:16,000
the well not like when i was there in 16

1196
00:43:20,950 --> 00:43:16,800
the

1197
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:20,960
state department leadership were talking

1198
00:43:26,470 --> 00:43:23,359
about this concept of the

1199
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:26,480
basically a counter-terror plot

1200
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,040
in a secure

1201
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,520
area like a bob room or something as

1202
00:43:35,589 --> 00:43:33,440
having a long-term benefit not just for

1203
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:35,599
afghanistan but for the region so that

1204
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:38,240
was an active thought in both state and

1205
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:41,040
dod back in 2016 so i don't know why

1206
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,200
that just disappeared

1207
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,359
yeah talk about that bagram air base for

1208
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:47,760
me real quick um as far as what you know

1209
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:49,359
about it apparently it was built by the

1210
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:51,040
soviet union and

1211
00:43:54,309 --> 00:43:52,720
i've read about how

1212
00:43:57,030 --> 00:43:54,319
secure

1213
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:57,040
it is and and so forth and you know

1214
00:44:00,230 --> 00:43:58,400
people being upset that we obviously

1215
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:00,240
that we gave it up but what do you know

1216
00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:03,359
about this this airbase

1217
00:44:06,550 --> 00:44:04,960
well you want me to go first jim i mean

1218
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,560
i've been there probably as i say

1219
00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:08,960
probably five or six times it's a huge

1220
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:11,440
base uh i hope you had a chance to watch

1221
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:12,720
that video

1222
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,000
of uh

1223
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:16,880
the company i worked for losing at 747

1224
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:17,680
there

1225
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:20,000
i mean that's probably a 10 minute ride

1226
00:44:23,349 --> 00:44:21,680
from the major part of the base over to

1227
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,359
that base where it went down and there

1228
00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:25,520
was a dorm over there

1229
00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:28,240
so it's a lot of ground to protect uh

1230
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:29,839
for sure

1231
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,240
and the wing commander the last time i

1232
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,160
was in bagram had been a wing commander

1233
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:37,200
for me in europe and i asked him what

1234
00:44:40,710 --> 00:44:39,119
kept him awake at night

1235
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,720
and he said

1236
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,280
an afghani coming through the front gate

1237
00:44:47,670 --> 00:44:45,359
and getting past security with a vest

1238
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:47,680
and coming into the dining hall

1239
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:50,160
so there's a there's a constant threat

1240
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:51,760
there for sure

1241
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:52,560
but

1242
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:55,680
um i mean with the right security forces

1243
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,160
and they did have a lot of contractors

1244
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,240
i mean you could have been on any base

1245
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:02,400
usa i mean with its wendy's and

1246
00:45:07,750 --> 00:45:05,119
mcdonald's and the space exchange

1247
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:07,760
it was quite the complex and is that

1248
00:45:14,069 --> 00:45:12,000
where our 2500 um military members were

1249
00:45:16,390 --> 00:45:14,079
a good portion of them

1250
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:16,400
and not to mention we we should say nato

1251
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,520
i think had another what five thousand

1252
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:21,359
there approximately

1253
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:24,720
yeah i've heard uh five date

1254
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:26,800
but chris you've been there since i have

1255
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:27,839
um

1256
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:30,480
so chime in yeah and chris

1257
00:45:33,990 --> 00:45:32,640
address if you could for us

1258
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:34,000
do you think that we could have

1259
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:36,079
maintained that base

1260
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:38,000
in other words i do pulled out of

1261
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:45,750
yeah i i think you well i think you

1262
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,319
could have we could have maintained that

1263
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:50,800
base and and frankly the king zone

1264
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:53,040
compound with the embassy on it too

1265
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:54,960
now granted they were

1266
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:57,599
you know a short vehicle ride you know

1267
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,359
through a crowded city but helicopter

1268
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:01,680
transport was easy back and forth

1269
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:02,880
we did it

1270
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:05,359
plenty of times um

1271
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:07,520
so yeah i think it was feasible now of

1272
00:46:11,589 --> 00:46:09,520
course there's going to be risk there

1273
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:11,599
of course if the taliban comes back in

1274
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:13,760
power it's going to be constantly under

1275
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:15,599
threat but you could still build the

1276
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:16,640
right

1277
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:19,359
force package and forward patrols and

1278
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:22,400
presence and counter battery assets of

1279
00:46:25,589 --> 00:46:23,599
everything

1280
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:25,599
that the

1281
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:27,200
you know anybody with bad intentions

1282
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:28,400
would really think twice because they'd

1283
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:29,920
get hammered

1284
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:31,599
if they tried to launch mortars into

1285
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,240
that base etc etc so you could have you

1286
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:36,000
could have done it um

1287
00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,319
it would have been worth a try is i

1288
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:40,720
think is the important thing yeah

1289
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:42,400
because also you can

1290
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:44,640
any operations pertaining to pakistan

1291
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:46,480
and and keeping an eye you know drones

1292
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,000
flying over pakistan and so on would go

1293
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:49,839
out of that base right

1294
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,640
right right

1295
00:46:57,270 --> 00:46:55,040
and and what are just total you know

1296
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:57,280
miscalculation it seems to me by by

1297
00:47:01,589 --> 00:47:00,400
biden of linking this pull out to 911

1298
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,599
like this was going to be some

1299
00:47:07,670 --> 00:47:04,560
celebratory thing that we pull out in

1300
00:47:08,470 --> 00:47:07,680
honor of the 20th anniversary of 9 11

1301
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:08,480
when

1302
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:09,359
you know

1303
00:47:12,630 --> 00:47:10,480
it's kind of

1304
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:12,640
shameful i mean it just brings back all

1305
00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:15,040
the bad feelings of 911

1306
00:47:19,109 --> 00:47:17,520
and realizing how we haven't really

1307
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:19,119
accomplished anything and we've left

1308
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:21,760
afghanistan probably in worse condition

1309
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:22,880
than when we

1310
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:25,280
first went in well you are so right on

1311
00:47:30,790 --> 00:47:27,440
jim can you can you i mean you can see

1312
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:30,800
the pictures already and it's not 911

1313
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:32,960
i bet for sure that we'll have pictures

1314
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:33,760
of

1315
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:40,559
and celebrating 911.

1316
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:42,160
right

1317
00:47:45,829 --> 00:47:43,680
wearing our uniforms

1318
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:45,839
did you guys see this sorry the

1319
00:47:50,549 --> 00:47:48,000
the iwo jima picture

1320
00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:50,559
yes i didn't see it i didn't see it but

1321
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,040
i can't imagine i mean i know i i have

1322
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:55,280
to believe that president biden didn't

1323
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:56,079
didn't

1324
00:48:02,230 --> 00:47:59,119
purposely hand the taliban a

1325
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:02,240
major street again to victory

1326
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,559
but the end result is this is a major

1327
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:06,720
propaganda victory for that for that

1328
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:12,470
yeah well it it goes just along the

1329
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:16,710
not wanting

1330
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:18,160
you know there's an argument that the

1331
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:19,680
obama administration now the bite

1332
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:22,400
administration does not want a strong

1333
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,240
united states you know it's

1334
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,079
the american exceptionalism and putting

1335
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,319
america first and seeing america as a

1336
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,839
world

1337
00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:33,839
leader

1338
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:37,200
is not something that they seem to want

1339
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:40,160
to promote and certainly as a result of

1340
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,839
his actions here he's brought america

1341
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,440
standing in the world

1342
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,680
down a number of notches

1343
00:48:49,829 --> 00:48:48,960
so you do kind of wonder how intentional

1344
00:48:51,510 --> 00:48:49,839
it is

1345
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,520
or maybe

1346
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:53,760
yeah i just hope um

1347
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:56,480
now i know president trump got a lot of

1348
00:48:59,829 --> 00:48:57,680
criticism

1349
00:49:02,069 --> 00:48:59,839
when he took over for the

1350
00:49:03,430 --> 00:49:02,079
kind of the outward approach he had

1351
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:03,440
towards nato

1352
00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:06,319
but having worked in that environment i

1353
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:08,800
i felt like it was justified our our

1354
00:49:12,230 --> 00:49:11,200
nato allies are good allies they're with

1355
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:12,240
us

1356
00:49:19,510 --> 00:49:17,680
and uh

1357
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:19,520
you know to for this lack of

1358
00:49:24,630 --> 00:49:22,079
coordination seemingly that happened

1359
00:49:27,670 --> 00:49:24,640
here i just hope it hasn't damaged

1360
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:27,680
in that particular treaty

1361
00:49:31,750 --> 00:49:29,920
nato was never stronger when trump uh

1362
00:49:34,390 --> 00:49:31,760
left office because he got the countries

1363
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:34,400
to put more money in right i mean

1364
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:36,319
that whole thing that oh trump didn't

1365
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:39,599
support nato he he didn't support a nato

1366
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:41,359
where america was putting in its fair

1367
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:42,800
share and the others were not that was

1368
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:45,119
my understanding of his position

1369
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:46,960
but it does but to be fair it sounds

1370
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:48,960
like general bishop

1371
00:49:52,630 --> 00:49:51,440
you would you are critical of trump's

1372
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,640
decision

1373
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:54,880
to cut this deal with the taliban and to

1374
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:56,079
pull all

1375
00:50:00,549 --> 00:49:58,480
troops out because it's your view and i

1376
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:00,559
think i share it that that

1377
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:02,720
we should have left a base there

1378
00:50:07,990 --> 00:50:05,440
i think the way i would um

1379
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,000
crouch that gym is

1380
00:50:12,950 --> 00:50:09,680
so much is

1381
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,960
hangs on the words and how you say it

1382
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:15,440
uh you know bringing all americans home

1383
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,359
ending the endless war

1384
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:19,680
has political appeal

1385
00:50:24,309 --> 00:50:21,760
i think he could have accomplished much

1386
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,319
in fact i i think we did accomplish much

1387
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:26,880
of what the trump administration won

1388
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:28,559
we haven't had an american killed there

1389
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:29,920
in 18 months

1390
00:50:34,470 --> 00:50:32,559
i mean we weren't necessarily quote at

1391
00:50:36,710 --> 00:50:34,480
war i know if somebody's firing at you

1392
00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:36,720
you feel like you're at war but

1393
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:40,000
nobody has died over there in 18 months

1394
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:42,400
and i think as chris has alluded it was

1395
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,960
a strategic part of the world where we

1396
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:46,800
could have had

1397
00:50:51,460 --> 00:50:48,880
some eyes and ears

1398
00:50:53,109 --> 00:50:51,470
this over the horizon

1399
00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:53,119
[Music]

1400
00:50:57,589 --> 00:50:55,359
capability that president biden speaks

1401
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,599
about i'm wondering where that over the

1402
00:51:02,069 --> 00:50:59,599
horizon is coming from

1403
00:51:05,510 --> 00:51:02,079
i mean i've flown a lot between

1404
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:05,520
uh dubai and abu dhabi and

1405
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:07,359
kuwait

1406
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:09,920
into afghanistan

1407
00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:13,359
it's it's about a three-hour flight

1408
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:17,200
where is our closest base at this point

1409
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:19,280
well i i would guess

1410
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,800
um unless

1411
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:22,400
you know i don't have a map in front of

1412
00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:23,920
me there may be some

1413
00:51:28,309 --> 00:51:26,079
incirlik at turkey maybe a little closer

1414
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,319
but i mean where we see what the

1415
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:30,800
intermediate isb is here for this

1416
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,000
evacuation is how you beat and cutter

1417
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:37,200
so we have a basin cutter yes

1418
00:51:42,230 --> 00:51:39,359
well it's a qatari base but

1419
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:42,240
you know we we pay a lot for it

1420
00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:44,720
it's their base but we

1421
00:51:49,589 --> 00:51:46,000
we pay for it

1422
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:49,599
right and the navy has a base in bahrain

1423
00:51:52,309 --> 00:51:51,200
those two places are probably the

1424
00:51:55,109 --> 00:51:52,319
closest

1425
00:51:58,470 --> 00:51:55,119
there's also an installation

1426
00:52:00,549 --> 00:51:58,480
in kuwait that's more army focused chris

1427
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:00,559
could probably talk about that one

1428
00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,839
and the navy has some places

1429
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:05,920
down in uae

1430
00:52:09,430 --> 00:52:07,760
i believe fujira

1431
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,440
they have a little bit of a station

1432
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:11,200
there and there's

1433
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:14,079
another air base that we work with emrex

1434
00:52:18,870 --> 00:52:17,119
and uau as well

1435
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:18,880
uh final thought

1436
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:21,280
general petty i'll go to you any concern

1437
00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:22,079
that

1438
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:24,400
this affects recruiting for the military

1439
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:27,040
does this make recruiting more difficult

1440
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:28,160
um

1441
00:52:32,150 --> 00:52:29,839
yeah i think it's bound to have some

1442
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:32,160
effect i mean we're still gonna have a

1443
00:52:37,589 --> 00:52:34,400
small percentage of the population that

1444
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:37,599
is patriotic and wants to serve and and

1445
00:52:41,030 --> 00:52:39,520
stand by the colors and do good things

1446
00:52:42,309 --> 00:52:41,040
for america so

1447
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:42,319
you know it's not gonna affect everybody

1448
00:52:46,950 --> 00:52:44,400
but it's it's it's bound to have an

1449
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:46,960
effect you want to be on a team

1450
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:48,000
um

1451
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:49,359
you know and you want to

1452
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,880
you want to be proud of what your

1453
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:53,440
services are accomplishing and i'm not

1454
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,599
i'm not painting a broad brush against

1455
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:57,520
the services here i'm like i said

1456
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:58,880
earlier on i'm

1457
00:53:03,349 --> 00:53:01,599
really curious about the the internal

1458
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:03,359
after-action review when we get the true

1459
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,359
story of what went on in the national

1460
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:07,040
security council

1461
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,680
but uh yeah i think it's gonna have

1462
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,839
some effect on recruiting

1463
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:13,520
yeah it's just that i mean so many

1464
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:15,200
patriotic americans signed up for the

1465
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:18,160
military after 9 11 you know just

1466
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:20,319
similar to to pearl harbor

1467
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:21,200
um

1468
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:25,040
and to have it kind of end this way

1469
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:28,000
is makes it extra depressing

1470
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:29,920
yeah i mean we all know history i mean

1471
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:32,400
soldiers and sailors and airmen

1472
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,400
and marines and coast guardsmen have

1473
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,480
have made the ultimate sacrifice through

1474
00:53:40,950 --> 00:53:38,079
ages and

1475
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:40,960
not every conflict has turned out well

1476
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:44,240
um but they did what they signed up to

1477
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:45,760
do they did what they were asked to do

1478
00:53:49,430 --> 00:53:47,760
they served honorably and that's all

1479
00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:49,440
they can ask of them

1480
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:51,040
thank you again to lieutenant general

1481
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:53,760
rod bishop and brigadier general chris

1482
00:54:01,069 --> 00:53:56,559
petty you can support their very

1483
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:01,079
important project at stars.us that's

1484
00:54:05,750 --> 00:54:03,520
s-t-a-r-r-s-u-s stand together against

1485
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:05,760
racism and radicalism in the services

1486
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:07,920
stars.us

1487
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:09,280
thank you to our producer michael parker

1488
00:54:12,150 --> 00:54:10,480
thank you all for listening we'll be

1489
00:54:14,580 --> 00:54:12,160
back soon with another episode of the

1490
00:54:17,349 --> 00:54:14,590
hidden truth show

1491
00:54:18,549 --> 00:54:17,359
[Music]

1492
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:18,559
thank you for listening to the hidden

1493
00:54:24,150 --> 00:54:20,559
truth show with jim breslow

1494
00:54:26,309 --> 00:54:24,160
you can find us at hiddentruthshow.com

1495
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:26,319
follow us on facebook twitter and

1496
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:29,119
instagram the hidden truth show

1497
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:30,880
join us again next week for another

1498
00:54:40,050 --> 00:54:33,520
episode of hidden truth show with jim